Most peoples guesses at statistics amount to a guess based on what they see on TV. So they think everyone is rich. They guess they have a lot of sex. They think blacks as a % of the population are similar to blacks as a % of TV stars.
Your friends were right; there is not a quota system for minorities in US universities. Such policies were ruled unconstitutional in University of California v Bakke.
It's a meaningless ruling in practice. Universities have not stopped against discriminating against Asians and Whites in favor of Blacks and Hispanics.
The term 'quota system' is generally used to mean quite a specific thing, ie there's an actual quota, and would be thought of as distinct from other forms of positive discrimination. So, I'd say your friends were right on this one.
No, that’s false. Quotas very much do exist. They just aren’t called that, due to Bakke. Instead, they are called “diversity targets” or something of that sort.
There was a huge lawsuit several years ago involving Harvard...
"The statistics are shocking. As SFFA noted in its Harvard petition, “an Asian American in the fourth-lowest decile has virtually no chance of being admitted to Harvard (0.9%); but an African American in that decile has a higher chance of admission (12.8%) than an Asian American in the top decile (12.7%).”
Such unequal treatment followed the 2003 Supreme Court decision in Grutter v. Bollinger permitting schools’ temporary, limited use of race as one of many factors for the desired educational objective of viewpoint diversity. Harvard and other schools have used this loophole to drive de facto illegal racial quotas, using admissions subterfuges like personal scores and a “holistic” approach reminiscent of the methodologies Harvard developed a century ago to limit Jewish enrollment."
California and Michigan are barred by state law/court precedent from using race as a factor in admissions, but their state university school systems filed amicus briefs in the above case claiming that they "need" to use race as a factor in admissions to achieve their diversity goals:
The evidence is that, no matter what Universities claim they are doing or how they purport to change their admission practices, they always somehow end up with a student body that more or less matches the demographics of the United States despite dramatically different qualifications in the different demographic groups. What are the odds of that happening if they are not setting racial targets?
Whites are under-represented in UC system, but not because of African Americans or quotas. It is because of heavy dependence on test scores because everything else is controversial.
California Demographics - White alone 61.6%; Black alone 12.4%; Hispanic 18.7%; Asian alone 6%;
UC Berkely Demographics - 30.6% Asian, 25.4% White, 16.3% Hispanic or Latino, 5.5% Two or More Races, 2.42% Black or African American
Your correspondents were correct that there is not a "quota system" for African Americans and Hispanics in U.S. colleges. By contrast, there really are quota systems for Dalits in India.
A lot of these Americans would get wrong too.
Most peoples guesses at statistics amount to a guess based on what they see on TV. So they think everyone is rich. They guess they have a lot of sex. They think blacks as a % of the population are similar to blacks as a % of TV stars.
Your friends were right; there is not a quota system for minorities in US universities. Such policies were ruled unconstitutional in University of California v Bakke.
It's a meaningless ruling in practice. Universities have not stopped against discriminating against Asians and Whites in favor of Blacks and Hispanics.
The term 'quota system' is generally used to mean quite a specific thing, ie there's an actual quota, and would be thought of as distinct from other forms of positive discrimination. So, I'd say your friends were right on this one.
No, that’s false. Quotas very much do exist. They just aren’t called that, due to Bakke. Instead, they are called “diversity targets” or something of that sort.
Would you provide some evidence for that claim?
There was a huge lawsuit several years ago involving Harvard...
"The statistics are shocking. As SFFA noted in its Harvard petition, “an Asian American in the fourth-lowest decile has virtually no chance of being admitted to Harvard (0.9%); but an African American in that decile has a higher chance of admission (12.8%) than an Asian American in the top decile (12.7%).”
Such unequal treatment followed the 2003 Supreme Court decision in Grutter v. Bollinger permitting schools’ temporary, limited use of race as one of many factors for the desired educational objective of viewpoint diversity. Harvard and other schools have used this loophole to drive de facto illegal racial quotas, using admissions subterfuges like personal scores and a “holistic” approach reminiscent of the methodologies Harvard developed a century ago to limit Jewish enrollment."
https://nypost.com/2022/08/03/higher-ed-vs-asian-students-in-supreme-courts-harvard-discrimination-case/
Race is currently being used as a factor in admissions, but there is a lawsuit before the Supreme Court challenging that practice:
https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/students-for-fair-admissions-inc-v-university-of-north-carolina/
California and Michigan are barred by state law/court precedent from using race as a factor in admissions, but their state university school systems filed amicus briefs in the above case claiming that they "need" to use race as a factor in admissions to achieve their diversity goals:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/affirmative-action-admissions-supreme-court.html
The evidence is that, no matter what Universities claim they are doing or how they purport to change their admission practices, they always somehow end up with a student body that more or less matches the demographics of the United States despite dramatically different qualifications in the different demographic groups. What are the odds of that happening if they are not setting racial targets?
Whites are under-represented in UC system, but not because of African Americans or quotas. It is because of heavy dependence on test scores because everything else is controversial.
California Demographics - White alone 61.6%; Black alone 12.4%; Hispanic 18.7%; Asian alone 6%;
UC Berkely Demographics - 30.6% Asian, 25.4% White, 16.3% Hispanic or Latino, 5.5% Two or More Races, 2.42% Black or African American
There is a quota system to keep out Asians, though it is being dismantled at many public institutions.
There is a quota system to keep out Asians, though it is being dismantled at many public institutions.
Your correspondents were correct that there is not a "quota system" for African Americans and Hispanics in U.S. colleges. By contrast, there really are quota systems for Dalits in India.
I know. That's why I asked the question.
How much do you make?
lower end of six figures